tv The Ed Show MSNBC August 31, 2009 6:00pm-7:00pm EDT
get your cell phones ready. we're going to have another text survey. first, tonight's "on-ed." i love to go out on the road and see what folks are thinking. after being on the road this weekend there's a storm brewing across this country when it comes to health care reform. what our team saw this weekend on the road in ain aen and colorado, absolutely astounding. democrats in the liberal base of the party are drawing a line in the sand with their own elected officials. they say, look, either you're going to support the public option or you're going to lose our support. tonight they're putting it in writing. i spoke in french lick, indiana on saturday, to the democratic editorial convention in french lick, indiana. it was all about the public option. that's all folks want to talk about. they're sending a very clear message to these blue dogs own the congressional delegation. look, either support the president or public option or we may not be there. saturday night i spoke to the
broom field democrats in denver, colorado. after listening to the democrats in two different states, in one day, i just put it out to the brookfield democrats. i said, look, are you willing to throw udall and bennett under the bus if they're not going to support a public option? they all roared. i said, put it in writing. hours later i had this letter from the executive council and leadership of the democratic party there in the broomfield county and this is it. this is signed. we just haven't seen anything like this. here we have a situation where the very people that voted for the democratic senators in colorado are now willing to put it on record and on paper to say, look, if you can't do public option, we can't support you anymore. i want to read this to you tonight, folks. be -- it's resolved. the executive economy of the broomfield democrats on this date on behalf of the party
members, the county declares its support for president obama's call for a robust public option health care plan, one that an intracall part of the comprehensive reform that ensures all in america have affordable access to quality, basic health care, irrespective of health conditions, socioeconomic status or employment status. the president opportunity for the true health care reform that meets the above objectives is too fragile and too important for our nation for to it to be lost by public interest. it should be clear all elected officials and candidates for office desiring support by by ballot must evidence clear support for this resolution as stated. this applies to our democratic colleague senator udall, senator bennett of colorado as well as
other candidates seeking office in this city and county of broomfield, colorado. folks, this is a courageous move. i think this is going to be happening in a lot of counties across the country. there's an undercurrent across america in democratic counties that if you don't support this we're not going to go back to the well with you. you've seen crazy town hall meetings all summer long. here's my radio town hall in boulder, colorado at the university of colorado last night. listen to this crowd. they're getting right after it. here's what they had to say. >> why haven't -- >> so this is outside the beltway. this is outside the big apple. this is out there in the
heartland in indiana and in colorado. this is a grassroots effort to send the message to elected democrats you better get it together and support president obama and the public option. health care reform is what it's all about. they're getting real tired of this yellow dog or hound dog or blue dog or whatever the hell kind of dog you want to be. you have to support the president on this or the democratic movement in this country that elected barack obama is going to unravel. i want you to get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. should democrats support a final bill without a public option? text "a" for yes and "b" for no to 622639. joining me now is e.j. dion of the "washington post." i have never seen this before. where you have got the very people who elected, senators now telling them within the near of a new president, either you do this or don't come back to us for the money and don't come back to us for the support.
do you think this kind of stuff could have an impact on the whole process? >> well, yeah, i do, ed, think there is more pressure now for a public plan within the party and around the country than there was before. i think that we who are progressive who really want health care reform have to be able to keep several ideas in our heads at the same time. on the one hand agree with you the plan would be a lot better with a public option in it. president obama made a mistake when he started negotiating himself in the public with it. he caused a lot of trouble he didn't need to cause but did help set off this movement. i think there are a couple problems here. one is we're talking so much about the public plan or public option that we have said, yes, it should be in or no -- you know, we're against those who don't want it. i think a lot of people out there still don't know what's in that public option. >> e.j., here's where they are.
pre-existing conditions, gone. everybody in this country no matter what kind of money you make, you're going to get covered and there's going to be a subsidy. that's what the people want. now, the question is, you know, they're now willing to put it on paper in some counties in this country that say, look, if you don't support this, then why did we send you to washington in the first place? the question is is obama going to seize this moment and seal the deal? >> you described two things people care about passionately. you talked about pre-existing conditions which people are passionate about. they're passionate about not being bankrupted by illness and within insurance company cuts off your coverage. they're passionate because they think they're baying too much for too little. we started losing ground in august in this debate. we stopped talking about those most basic things. i think the other problem we have -- i done know the answer to this. i think as a negotiating tactic,
as a way to put pressure, people who support the public plan should bring all the pressure they can. at the end of the day if you had a health bill that covered everybody or almost everybody, had really tough insurance requirements and say only had a trigger instead of a public plan in it, i think it would be very difficult for progressives in conscience to say, no, we're going to walk away from covering 45 million americans. i think that's the tricky part here. i think a plan with the public option in it would be much better than without. but i think there are a lot of things we can get one way or the other. i think we should use the public plan to get everything we can out of the health care bill. >> e.j., this is a demanding moment by the american people. they are speaking clearly. all these nut jobs have shown up without information at these town hall meetings. these are democrats now standing up telling democrats we're not going to support you any more. you have to get this -- pre-existing condition. no one is going to be excluded.
it's not to be affordable. we don't want co-ops. eventually we want single player but you're not going to be able to get that in one swoop. i think this is the opportunity for the president to step up and have confidence knowing the american people are with him. the problem, you have conservative democrats who think, gosh, if i don't do this i'm going to become a target and i'm not going to get re-elected. that's the disconnect as i see it. you think there's room for negotiation? >> i think a lot of the conservative democrats are misreading their own districts on the public plan issue. that's where i agree with you. i think for a lot of americans in those districts they know they could benefit if a plan had a public plan in it. if you find yourself at the end of the line, let's say your campaign succeeds at getting every democratic senator to vote for a public option and massachusetts doesn't change its law and there are 59 votes there and you can't make it work
through the reconciliation process, you need that last vote. if olivia snow comes up to you and says, i'll go all the way with you but i like the trigger. are you saying you would walk away from that bill? >> absolutely. i would. if it were my call based on what the people want, i would. there's no appetite for democrats out in the heartland for bipartisanship. you have inhofe the other day saying he's not going to read the bill. >> we're not talking about -- >> go ahead. >> i agree with you if you're going to say negotiating endlessly with chuck grassley when not willing to say they're going to support the final outcome, that's not -- >> e.j., got to run. i appreciate your time tonight. e.j. dion, "washington post" with us. for more, let me bring in joan walsh, editor and chief of salon.com. will this have impact, what we're talking about, joan? >> i think it will, ed. we talked about this last week. we're a little bit late in
organizing. it is happening. people are speaking out. i think e.j. makes a good point that obama started negotiating with himself in public. the republicans are not negotiating with him. they said they're going to walk away from pretty much anything. so the question is, can we have time to make a difference? the conventional wisdom in washington, i don't live there, i'm in san francisco, is there is not a single liberal or progressive democrat who will lose his or her seat for voting against the public option whereas there are people, conservative democrats who would lose seats because of it. if the liberal base can make that equation change, then politics will change. you and i both know this is not happening because heartland american people are scared of the public option. this is happening because the insurance and pharmaceutical industry are scared of the public option. they have put so much money into the democratic party. >> joan, i also think it's happening, though, because a lot of progressives are starting to
figure out, they're weak in washington. the people we elected and sent there, they're kowtowing to the special interests and now they're afraid to say, well, wait a minute, we can't have the government involved here. we're really not ready to go that far. we're getting double talk from what we got before back in november to what's being told these folks right now. now you have got the line drawn in the sand by democratic leaders in the heartland that are saying, look, what message don't you get here? let me ask you this. how should obama play with this information going back to september? knowing that he really does have the people with him? >> i think he needs to come out and favor the public option. now, i'm not going to tell anyone, and i don't think obama should. ultimately will i never support a deal? right now i don't think i would. maybe i would. that's not how i learned to play poker. you don't show your hand. you don't let people know how much you're willing to bet. who are these people who didn't how to keep a poker face,
negotiate, and passionately fight for what they believe? all these people saying the spirit of ted kennedy would have been compromised. i don't believe that but i'm not a medium, i'm not channeling him today. all i'm saying is he was a fighter. me would have fought for this until he was absolutely convinced it wouldn't happen. we're not there yet. the faster we get there the more we ensure our own defeat. this compromise on the part of reasonable, reasonable liberals and progressives is really dispiriting to me. >> joan walsh, editor and chief, salon.com. thanks for joining us tonight. this is a moral issue, folks. it is a moral issue, and the democrats who want to play with the conservatives, you're making a big mistake on this. you're not going to get the reform that the people want. you stand a chance of blowing it, you better go back to washington with a clear message. coming up, dick cheney admits he doesn't care if the cia interrogators broke the law. i hope eric holder was watching this interview.
coming up on "the ed show," senator chuck schumer is a democratic power broker and strong supporter of the public option. i'll ask him what lies ahead. [ ] the deeper you clean, the cleaner you feel. olay deep cleansers go beyond what the eye can see. they remove 2 times more dirt and make-up than basic cleansing. for a deep clean feeling, deep cleansers from olay.
general eric holder has decided to investigate possible abuses. makes you wonder what they're afraid of. it's clear he and his little girl are reading from the same play book time and time again. >> the justice department has already reviewed the inspector general's report five years ago. >> this was looked at for five years by career prosecutors and decided not to profession cute. >> it's clearly a political move. there's no other rationale why they're doing this. >> political investigation. >> enhanced interrogation techniques were absolutely essential in saving lives. >> provided information that saved lives. >> joining me now, democratic congressman adam schiff of california. mr. schiff, great to have you on tonight. what's your response to some of those sound clips there from the cheney family which seems to be on the offensive against what the facts are? what's your response? >> well, just when you think the
vice president can't surprise you any more, he does again. i fully expected he would defend those who followed these flawed legal opinions. the vice president goes beyond that and says he doesn't care whether people follow these flawed opinions. he supports people who knowingly went beyond it and engaged in multiple, multiple use of waterboarding. that is surprising. that is, i think, quite shocking. what i found most interesting, though, ed, the way he conflates with the attorney general decided with this political decision by the president because it's plain that under the bush administration the attorney general was basically, like, alberto gonzalez, the president's lawyer. he was like the white house counsel. did whatever the president wanted. they have an attorney general who actually has independence from the white house and don't know what to make of it. they can't imagine it can be anything but political when, in fact, the attorney general is doing just what he should, looking at the facts objectively and decide these merit further review and investigation.
>> i want you to respond in this comment in the interview when cheney talks about the interrogations and what they produce. here it is. >> these interrogations were involved in the arrest of nearly all the al qaeda members were with able to bring to justice. they were directly responsible for the fact for eight years we had no further mass casualty assault against the united states. good policy, properly carried out. worked very, very well. >> even the cases where they went beyond the specific legal authorization, you're okay with it? >> i am. >> he says it was properly carried out. what does that mean? do you believe it? >> of course, i don't believe it. in fact, when you look at the inspector general report it says they were not properly carried out. they didn't follow flawed legal directives. >> what do you make of -- congressman, if they weren't probably carried out, then what do you make of cheney rearing his ugly head time and time again? every time a story comes up,
he's right there. what's he doing? what's his tragedy in your opinion? >> he's clearly the defender in chief of the bush administration. what i think is so revealing about this is it puts in context all the statements he made during the bush president say, all the claims he made. when you see the claims he's making now based on the report that is now public, you see what the former wrpt vice president is saying is at odds of what the intelligence communities are telling him. during the administration he's doing the exact same thing he's doing now which is playing fast and loose with the intelligence he's being given. not surprising, quite appalling. >> congressman, great to have you on. adam schiff from california here on "the ed show." next up on "the ed show," "psycho talk," michele bachmann. she's back and crazier than ever. her latest dandy on health care. you won't want to miss it. (announcer) don't go unnoticed
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our crew is losing count of the number here. it's "psycho talk" again tonight and she's back. that's right. michele bachmann at a town hall last week, the congresswoman from minnesota spoutsed a tired old line that has been disprove ed over and over. >> let's not destroy what truly is the greatest health care system the world has ever known. >> you know, if you and i were in the congress, we might feel
that way, but i'm sorry, congresswoman, a health care system where almost 50 million people are uninsured and costs are going through the roof out of control is not the greatest in the world. a more accurate statement would have been, let's not let our health care system destroy our economy. how about that one for size? now, if we don't get the health care reform we need, the commonwealth fund projects insurance premiums will double over the next ten years. small businesses are feeling it right now and will feel it the most. on average they pay 18% more for health care per worker than larger firms do. for those arguing a public option is too expensive, listen to this. right now health care costs are 18% of our gross domestic product. president obama's council of economic advisers says if nothing changes then by 2040 that will be at 34%. we can't afford not to reform health care, so michele bachmann, our health care system is destroying our economy, in case you didn't notice it.
how can that be the greatest health care system in the world and the best we have ever seen? no, no, no, that's just "psycho talk," michele. they're keeping it in the family. shooter and his daughter join forces again to come out of the bunker to defend the indefensible. since when did his daughter become such a credible force on this? a former cia officer and man who worked for cheney square off next on "the ed show" here on msnbc. welcome to the now network. right now five coworkers are working from the road using a mifi-- a mobile hotspot that provides up to five shared wi-fi connections. two are downloading the final final revised final presentation. - one just got an email. - woman: what?! hmph. it's being revised again. the copilot is on mapquest. and tom is streaming meeting psych-up music - from meltedmetal.com. - ( heavy metal music playing ) that's happening now with the new mifi from sprint-- the mobile hotspot that fits in your pocket. sprint. the now network. deaf, hard-of-hearing, and people with speech disabilities access www.sprintrelay.com.
welcome back to "the ed show." dick cheney on the defense since he left office. over the weekend he railed against the justice department's pending investigation of cia torture programs. shooter said he's proud of what they did. for more, bring in former cia officer jack rice and former special assistant to president george w. bush ron christie.
ron, we'll start with you tonight. what is the strategy here? why is the former vice president constantly coming out any morsel of information that comes out he deems it important for him to come out and fight back. why is he doing that if he has the truth on his side? >> i'll let the former vice president speak for himself. my opinion, a lot of actions we've seen from the inception of the obama administration, the former vice president questions whether those make the country safer. as an american citizen he's free to go on the airwaves like me and you and express his view. in this particular case, however, i think what the attorney general eric holder has done is a disgraceful act. you had an inspector general report out since 2004 where it found there was an individual who was a cia contractor who acted improperly and he was put in prison. why are we relitigating this, looking at this, again, ed?
i think it's politics rather than trying o make the country safer. >> your response. >> this is a book party. this guy is trying to sell books. the fact is is the torture does not work. that's -- number two, it's immoral and it's illegal. if we decided the geneva conventions are okay, that they're not just quaint, we should stand by them. if we listen to what it is dick cheney said, dick cheney said, you know what, for the guys who went beyond the letter of the law, according to the justice department at the time, he's okay with that, too. apparently there is no line this guy isn't willing to cross despite the fact it doesn't work. it's an outrage and should have never happened in the first place. >> we had white house reaction today. this is robert gibbs on what cheney had to say about this. >> this is the same song and dance we've heard since literally the first day of our administration. i'm not entirely sure dick cheney's positions on war have borne a whole lot of fruit over
the last eight years in a way that have been either positive or best of my recollection, very correct. >> ron, i don't understand, why would you support any kind of investigation, number one, if cheney is correct, and number two, if the facts are on your side? wouldn't the obama administration be making fools of themselves in they go down the wrong road on this and it backfires? if it is some kind of political ploy? i'll play into your theory that you think it's politics. if you have the facts on your side, what's the arm? >> i do have the facts on my side. we don't need to relitigate it. let's go back to 2004. there was a series of career individuals at the career justice department from the eastern district of virginia who looked into the allegations we're discussing tonight. these people, not political people, but career folks at the department of justice declined to litigate. they said there was not sufficient evidence to move forward with an investigation. so now you have the attorney general of the united states after the president of the
united states said we should move forward, we shouldn't look back, we don't need to investigate this any further. now the attorney general wants to decide to relitigate this, ed? if you're going to have integrity in the justice department, you're going to have officials who decline to move forward. what's the point than to embarrass the bush administration? that's my point. >> jack, go ahead. >> if we're talking about integrity in the justice department, it was the bush administration that decided to turn it into its own political arm. if this is to be an independent investigation, look at what gonzalez did, what john you did, the conclusions made here. how many times has the u.s. supreme court shot these guys down? now we look back and say, oh, all of this has been investigated. i haven't seen a legitimate investigation yet. the worst part now, ed, is what we're seeing is we're saying, we're going to go after this narrow group of people who may have outstepped the law, itself.
there are a number of people, including cia people saying let's look at the people who drove this in the first place not the guys in the field only. >> if you want to have the same zeal and fire about investigations, why don't we look at the individuals who leaked the information to "the new york times" that disclosed how, in fact, we were interrogating people? if you want to have that same level of outrage, talk about the people who leaked classified information? you as a former cia officer should know classified information is classified because it's in the best interest of the country. national security interests that remain closed and not disclosed. >> i'll give you a quick response to that, jack. go ahead. >> in the end, let's take a look past scooter libby. >> we're not talking about scooter libby. >> if you want transparency, see dick cheney sat in some underground bunker for eight years and never said a word. now because he's pushing a book he can't shut his mouth?
>> here's what i found offensive. i want to remind the american people we were hit on cheney's watch. we were hit big-time on cheney's watch. not on obama's watch. it was on cheney's watch. this idea they kept the country safe, how many billions of dollars did you and i as taxpayers throw into security that were never there before? all this guy thad to do was read his presidential daily briefing on august 6th, 2001 and pay attention. >> that's a fact, ron. >> on that watch. >> here's the sound bite from that interview. here it. >> the other thing that offends the hell out of me, frankly, chris, we had a track record now of eight years of defending the nation against any further mass casualty attacks from al qaeda. the approach of the obama administration should be to come to those people who were involved in that policy and say, how did you do it? what were the keys to keeping
the country safe over that period of time? >> you know, ron christie, i'll give you conservatives some credit. you act as if nothing happened. you act as if you handled the information given to you by richard clark. i mean, do you understand what happened? september 11th, it was on your watch. >> do you want to go there with me, ed? >> yeah. >> let's talk about the clinton administration, the clinton justice department that viewed acts of terrorism, the first world trade center bombings, the -- >> excuse me, on american soil, the people hit during the administration, they ended up getting prosecuted and those people that hit new york back in '93, those folks are behind bars. the point is this -- >> we had the opportunity to go after osama bin laden. the clinton administration refused to do so. >> are you trying to tell us the bush administration did a good job protecting the country? >> yes, the fact of the matter
is -- >> end of the discussion. you said yes. >> the clinton administration had the opportunity to take out osama bin laden. they didn't. >> ron, wait a minute. wait a minute now. do you think the bush administration was given enough information before the attacks that they should have acted differently? >> ed, neither you nor i had the opportunity to read the classified version of the presidential daily brief. i can't answer the question any more than you can. all i know is the bush administration acted in the best interest of the american people and kept this country safe. >> good to have you on, ron. i appreciate your time. thank you, jack rice. thanks for being here tonight. coming up, the democrats holding the line on a public option. it's what the people want. nancy, i'm counting on you to get this done in the house. that's next on "the ed show." reading about washington these days... i gotta ask,
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(announcer) sign up today and get a netbook for $199.99 after mail-in rebate. with built-in access to the nation's fastest 3g network. only from at&t. in my "play book" tonight, it's preseason. who am i going to pick when we get back to washington? which democratic senator do i want on my team? the passing of senator ted kennedy leaves, i think, a major void and now we're going into september which is going to be one of the biggest fights this country has ever had. this is a moral issue. i warned the conservative democrats. you need to vote your conscience on this. too many americans are going to be hurt if we don't get this right and i don't want a co-op. if i'm the head coach, i'm cutting anybody working on the co-op, okay? i'm a single-payer guy. i wish they'd go down that road.
a public option, if we can get the pre-existing condition removed, i'd draft that person in a second. who's going to step to the senate floor with the passion? who's going to step to the senate floor and say, when will the greed stop in the insurance industries? who's that democrat? i can't wait for september. i can't wait until they come back to work. let's go to bill press and sam stein, tonight, and also ron christie is back with us again. nationally syndicated radio talk show host bill press. bill, who is going to be that person in the 11th hour to stand up on the senate floor and say, when is the greed going to stop and capture the attention of the american people and show the democrats want to get this done? who is that democrat? >> first of all, ed, i think it's got to be barack obama. he's no in the senate but he's got to stand up and say, look, we've had enough dicking around. we've had enough talk. now is the time for action.
it's got to be a health care reform plan that covers everybody. no pre-existing condition. a strong public plan option. that's what i want. if he says that, ed, you'll see democrats, chuck schumer is one of them, chuck dodd is one of them. they're two leaders. start with them. >> ron christie, tell us about the september stall. how are we supposed to, as liberals, take the republicans serious when here's mr. inhofe telling the american people i'm not even going to read the bill? you have mr. grassley saying there's not going to be any bipartisan agreement if there's any kind of government option or government-run program? how is this going to play out in september, ron? what's your prediction? >> actually, ed, i think bill is absolutely right. i think the person who has to step up to the plate for health care reform has to be president obama. i think the president can come back to washington tomorrow and sit down in a very destructive, very bipartisan manner. three members of the republican party and the three members of
the democratic party in the senate sitting down trying to come up with a deal. i don't think it's in the public's best interest to have a deal ram tlud done specific sli and only on a party line. that's the wrong thing. the american people say that's why the people in washington don't get it. bottom line, got to be bipartisan. president obama has to set the marker down for people to follow. >> how can it be bipartisan when you have people say they won't read the bill? who's going to be bipartisan? >> the answer to that is it won't be bipartisan. you're seeing this week and next week an the week after that will be the death of bipartisan on health care reform. they slapped down senator ensign for the comments they made. dismissing the notion it will be a bipartisan bill. the white house had enough. you're seeing progressives go after chuck grassley. because they want to show the way for democrats to understand that he's not negotiating in good faith. this is not someone you're going
to get a good health care bill from. they're trying to lead the charge. expect the white house and others to follow suit. you'll see the death of a bipartisan health care idea many the weeks ahead. >> sam stein, what do you think of democrats out there saying, you know what, we're going to turn on you if you don't act properly on public option and deliver what we expect you to deliver? there are democratic groups out there who are saying don't come home and expect our support again. >> the unions have said this and the progressives in the house. for the first time in the recent memory, the progressive caucus in the house of representatives is doing what the blue dogs traditionally do. we have numbers. we're going to rally run an idea. if you don't have this in the legislation, forget it, we're not going to support it. it's nice to see progressives do it and balance out what the blue dogs do on the other side of the sprek strum. who's going to blink first? >> finally, bill press, does the
president have to be strong? i mean, his base is getting vocal right now. there could be a political backlash if the president doesn't remain strong on public option. will he waiver? what do you think? >> ed, bipartisan is dead. i'll tell you who killed it. chuck grassley and mike enzly killed it when they said they don't plan to vote for the bill, anyway, when they spent all this time negotiating. forget them. bob dole said it well in "washington post" this morning. we don't need a cheerleader on the sidelines. we need a platoon leader leading the charge for a public plan option the way he started out. that will get legislation done. coming up on "the ed show," i'm going to have a longer conversation, longer than normal, with new york senator chuck schumer. i will pose the very same questions to him about leadership in the senate. is bipartisanship dead? all of that's coming up. stay with us. this is "the ed show" on msnbc.
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welcome back to "the ed show." earlier this month, a helicopter and a small plane collided over the hudson river in manhattan and nine people were killed. it was a horrible accident. new york senior senator chuck schumer says it's bound to happen again if we don't get better monitoring in the wild west airspace. senator chuck schumer joining us tonight on "the ed show" on msnbc. good to have you with us. >> nice to be here. >> you are proposing total
airspace control. is that correct? >> that's correct. >> from right from the ground all the way through? >> right now from zero to 1,000 feet there's no regulation. no one has to file flight plans. that may work in rural idaho. it doesn't work in new york city, particularly over the hudson river which a lot of planes like to go over. >> flight plans mandatory? >> flight plans mandatory. helicopters should be part of the regulation theme. they're not now. under the president bush the faa was cut to smither reens. the head of the faa was a political appointee. omb ran the show. we don't have enough controllers in the teterboro tower. there are many things that should be done and most of all, if you got this modern gps system which uses satellites would be much easier to monitor everything. was developed in 2001 and france bought it, italy bought it, germany bought it, china, japan,
tibet. we didn't because omb said it was too expensive. >> i've done a lot of work with the air traffic controllers. they talk about their antiquateds. they talk about how they have run a lot of experienced controllers out of jobs. work rules have changed. this obviously is too much -- >> the woman who ran the show was just crazy. i said to the business groups, business groups i said, you would never run a business like this. you wouldn't so alienate your workers that nothing was functioning and you couldn't sell your product. >> what's going to happen? i mean, how long would it take to implement new standards? the ones that -- >> manpower. that's easy. they could actually require the filling of flight plans and stuff like that within six months. the gps system and new equipment they need takes a little longer. every day waited is a day we're not as safe as we should be. >> senator, let's switch gears to health care. >> you've got it. >> who is going to lead the
charge for the democrats? who's going to stand up and hold the republican obstructionists accountable on the senate floor? how much determination is there from the democratic side? >> oh, i think there's real determination from the democratic side, ed, in this sense. i think most democrats, liberal, moderates, even conservatives realize to go home with no bill is the worst thing of all. there's a growing realization. you saw today what mr. gibbs said about enzi. chuck grassley's letter to all of his fund-raisers, just attacking the democrats, that the idea of having grassley and ensign negotiate in good faith is gone. >> have you given up on a bipartisan effort? >> well, i was one who said we ought to look seriously at reconciliation. i prefer bipartisan effort, all things being equal. so would everybody. i don't think it's likely to happen now. olympia snowe is a different,
you know, a different type of actor in this than enzi and grassley. >> you might get some republican votes? >> very few. maybe on different issues you'll get different ones. in my view, the way we're going to get health care reform is relying on our democratic caucus is carry the ball. mcconnell in the senate, boehner in the house and most in the republican base says to every republican, no bill or we're going to get really upset with you. >> some of the lives -- >> they listen. >> and some of the lives -- let's go to this sound cut of senator enzi, what he said in his republican weekly response. here it is. >> these bills also raid medicare. this will result in cutting hundreds of billions of dollars from the elderly to create new government programs. this intrusion of a washington bureaucrat in the relationship between a doctor and patient is not the kind of reform americans are seeking. >> cutting kuns of billiohundre
of dollars. is that the truth? >> no. we're going to keep the medicare system. in fact, when the fellow party members of senator enzi attack a government plan, the answer is, oh, you don't like medicare? you really talk to the republican base. a lot of them don't like medicare. they'd like to get rid of it. they think it was a mistake. mike enzi there is defending medicare. most of his party says anything the government does is a bad thing including medicare. >> he says that the democrats are going to cut billions of dollars out of the medicare program which senior citizens are hearing the reimbursement isn't going to be there, i'm not going to get the kind of coverage i have normally gotten. is that going to happen? >> no. >> what about this constant pounding of how there's going tto be a government agent between you and your doctor? what's the best play against the system that some americans are
believing? >> the problem with our sort of messaging is twofold. one, the negatives should have been hit back much farther. for about a month this idea of the death panel -- >> the death panel. >> of the illegal immigrants getting medicare. >> that's all false. >> and all that, all false. of abortion. a doctor being forced to do an abortion, all false. they have to explain to people why they're doing it. i say, look, in seven years medicare is going to run out of money. if you're a senior citizen you won't have medicare. we have to certainly make sure that medicare continues to exist and you can't do that by the status quo. then i say, if you have a job and you like the health insurance your employer provides you, there's all too good a chance he's going to call you in and say, ed, you've been a great worker. i love you here, i want you to stay here but i can no longer cover your health insurance because the cost doubles over every seven years. we have to show people that the reason we are doing reform is
not just to cover new people, that's an admirable goal -- >> but to save what we have. does the co-op have any merit at all? would you sign on -- >> the co-op, look, the co-op as conceived by chuck grassley is 100 farmers getting together and forming a co-op then we solve the problem. i've always said i think the co-op is dead. when it had a little life it needs to do three things. have everybody available for it that they can purchase it. start on day one and be big enough, strong enough, tough enough to go against both the big insurance companies and the big suppliers. the co-op as envisioned by chuck grassley doesn't come close to that, so it is dead. >> you're all about a public plan. >> yes. >> you're all about pre-existing conditions being gone. >> yes. >> which the insurance industry is going to -- >> by the way, on the public plan, here's what i say to my constituents in new york and to my colleagues.
we have private colleges and public colleges in new york. you're not forced to send your kids to either one. you have a choice. we're better off we have both. each is stronger because we have the other and it gives you a choice. same thing with public option. >> senator, great to have you on tonight. i appreciate your work. keep up the fight. thank you so much. earlier in the show i asked you what you thought. should democrats support a final bill whouts without a public option? 9,000 responded. 13% say yes, 87% of you say no. i love that. that's "the ed show." i'm ed schultz. for more information on the ed show, go to ed.msnbc.com. "hardball" with chris matthews is next right here on the place for politics, msnbc. cheney. let's play "hardball."
good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. leading off tonight, back to the fight. tonight we return to the central question of american political life. of what kind of a country do you want to live in, one that abides by international law and treats our enemies according to the geneva conventions, or is this to be a country that does whatever its leaders and public service decide is necessary in its defense? anything they decide is necessary. we know where dick cheney stands and that's how you pronounce his name, by the way, cheney. he's with the whatever you think is necessary people who just happen to be led by dick cheney. he's defending the bush/cheney era's use of what a lot of people call torture. he's attacking the obama white house for investigating the abuse of prisoners. he is taking the unusual role of defending the cia itself, an agency he bullied and ridiculed for eight years in his role as vice president. and is he's getting hit by john mccain, who has two advantages over cheney. one, he knows what it means to be tortured.